Should the church remain politically neutral? Join Jordan and Kristen as they break down the complexities of faith entwined with politics, spurred by feedback from those who feel the church has become a shadow of political parties, especially within American evangelical circles. They're taking on the challenge of dissecting whether our faith communities have strayed too far into partisan territories or if there's a moral imperative to stand firm on issues that align with our spiritual convictions. Expect an honest, no-holds-barred conversation about the role of the church in an era where political affiliation seems as integral to identity as religious belief.
Through prayer and thought-provoking discussion, we grapple with the image of Jesus in the realm of modern politics and the difficulty of being His followers amidst today's morally charged political landscape. Should the church be a bastion of peace, untouched by the chaos of the political world, or does it have a duty to address the pressing matters that affect our moral compass? Tune in as we explore the delicate balance between advocating for what's right and avoiding the pitfalls of becoming entangled in political strife, all the while seeking to honor our convictions without succumbing to the divisive nature of partisanship.
Should the church remain politically neutral? Join Jordan and Kristen as they break down the complexities of faith entwined with politics, spurred by feedback from those who feel the church has become a shadow of political parties, especially within American evangelical circles. They're taking on the challenge of dissecting whether our faith communities have strayed too far into partisan territories or if there's a moral imperative to stand firm on issues that align with our spiritual convictions. Expect an honest, no-holds-barred conversation about the role of the church in an era where political affiliation seems as integral to identity as religious belief.
Through prayer and thought-provoking discussion, we grapple with the image of Jesus in the realm of modern politics and the difficulty of being His followers amidst today's morally charged political landscape. Should the church be a bastion of peace, untouched by the chaos of the political world, or does it have a duty to address the pressing matters that affect our moral compass? Tune in as we explore the delicate balance between advocating for what's right and avoiding the pitfalls of becoming entangled in political strife, all the while seeking to honor our convictions without succumbing to the divisive nature of partisanship.
Good evening everybody. Welcome to another edition of the Jordan and Kristen Ricochet show. Thank you so much for joining us. Tonight's topic is going to be about politics in the church. Is it appropriate? Should it be there? What should we do about it? Who knows? That's what we're going to talk about. Before we do that, kristen, why don't you pray for everybody?
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, jesus, thank you that you are the author and perfecter of our faith. God, we look to you for everything we need, because you have the whole world in your hands. Lord, you have the biggest problem, but you have the tiniest, tiniest detail. Thank you, lord, that you are big enough to just fill this whole world, lord, with your love, but you're also so intimate that you care about each and every one of us. Lord, we honor you and we praise you in Jesus' name. Amen.
Speaker 1:Amen, alright, so tonight's topic is going to be politics in the church. I can't think of anything that could possibly be more divisive during this Christmas season. We already did, you know, dealing with family dynamics. This is part of that, but you know, actually the inspiration behind this, kristen, is. When I was researching for the episodes we did on the decline of the church, one of the reasons that came up that people were giving for why they don't go to church is because they think it's become too politicized. In particular, I saw people complaining that even Jalisco Christianity has become too associated with Republican slash conservatism, slash Trumpism, and I wanted to get, first of all, your take on that.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, it's funny I think it's kind of like an interesting thing how we've been going on this theme of what we had talked about last week, of the declining church. There's a lot of gray areas and a lot of things where it's a yes or no question and the answer is yes, both. In other words, is politics a part of church? Well, we know that Jesus was neither a Democrat nor a Republican and we should follow him and his statutes and we should go after him and not focus on politics. However, at the same time, a lot of political agendas and political whether it's, you know, moral issues are buried in politics, and so we have to take a stand for those moral issues, and so it's neither we should not say, in other words, no, we're not going to be involved in politics at all, but we also shouldn't put the whole focus on politics. That's kind of my take, and I know that's really vague and kind of I just like contradicted myself, but that's kind of how I feel about the whole thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, it's easy to say Jesus wasn't a Republican or Democrat and I suppose that's true because those things didn't exist back then but he was first of all very much a divisive figure. He was the most divisive figure, probably the ever worked walked the face of the earth. He managed both to upset the religious authorities and the political authorities, who themselves hated each other. You know, people think that Jesus came to unite the world and everything. He was very clear and what he said is you think I've come here to unite people? I have come here with a sword in my hand to make war with our enemies.
Speaker 2:Well, you gotta think about, like when he overturned the tables. You know that's a right to anger.
Speaker 1:That wasn't a political act.
Speaker 1:But my point is I think something that you said is right that I also don't think Jesus would sit on the sidelines when it comes to the various issues that make up our political landscape.
Speaker 1:And this idea that Jesus was just one of these people who, you know, he was kind of this airhead hippie who, just you know, wanted to love everybody and judge nobody and therefore, you know, wouldn't really take a stand on any of the important issues. Or if he would, for some reason, it's always on, it's always the opposite of what he would obviously stand for. I mean, you see people saying well, the Christian thing to do is, you know, to support abortion. Like, if you want to support abortion, make a better argument than that, don't try to co-opt a faith. That clearly is antithetical to what you're arguing. So I think what you're saying is right, kristen, that Jesus, though he was not himself political, nevertheless did tell us what he expected of us, how best to live our lives. That has implications and unfortunately, politics is such a big part of our lives now that they can't help but intersect.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. You know we talk about how we, of course we love everyone, but we don't, you know, we don't say that the sin is great. Right, because we love people. We make sure that they know that what is right from wrong for their sake, because we love them and their souls. And I feel like the same thing with politics. We're not.
Speaker 2:I have a lot of friends who are liberal and so I'm not into getting into heated debates back and forth and telling them why they're wrong, because First of all, they just don't listen. But it's not going to get me anywhere. But at the same time, I am going to take a stand and for people, when appropriate and when the Holy Spirit prompts me to know where I stand, especially in church, I think about taking a stand. If you hadn't taken a stand on Facebook that one time, we never would have met or gotten together. You took a stand for anti-abortion on someone's post and my mom saw that and was so impressed by you and that's how I came to know you. So it's so important to take a stand.
Speaker 2:And, of course, my dad being involved in politics, I remember when someone was running for office who was a godly man and telling people in our church how important it was to vote for this man because he was a godly man and stood for godly things. And I couldn't believe how many people in this particular church that I attended were for we're not just saying Democrat, republican they out and out said that they were for abortion. I just I can't believe that Like I just it doesn't compute.
Speaker 1:Well, here's the thing if the church as a community is not going to involve itself in politics, that's going to leave a terrible vacuum that's going to be filled by anti-Christian things, and so this is sort of you don't really have much of a choice. Okay, you can either involve yourself in politics as a member of the church or you know that which is antithetical to the church is going to involve itself. So it's not. It's not like. You know, if you stay in the sidelines, there's no harm to it, all right. But I think we also need to make a distinction between the church as a community versus the church as an institution. You know, what should, what should the Sunday services be? If the Sunday services are focusing more on a politician than they are on Christ, then you have a serious problem there.
Speaker 1:Okay, you know, it's one thing to talk about issues and how we should conduct ourselves and inform ourselves of the various issues, and inform ourselves even of what the different parties and politicians stand for and things like that. But you know, if you're going to a church and your church is talking more about Joe Biden or Donald Trump they're talking about Jesus Christ then you have a real problem. Now I hear what people are saying when they say well, you know, I feel alienated by this church or that church because it becomes too political. You have to be careful because churches, to be effective, sometimes can't be afraid to talk about important things, knowing full well that some people might get upset about it. You can do it in love, but sometimes you just have to say things because it's the right thing to say.
Speaker 1:But you know, I can't think of any issue that was relevant during Jesus' time or during Paul's time afterwards that they shied away from. I mean any issue that you can think of that was relevant in that day, right, and Jesus was questioned by political leaders on political things and religious leaders on religious things. He didn't once back down from anything, right. And so it's odd that we should be—the Church of Christ had the legacy of Jesus Christ and yet we're not involving ourselves— we're afraid to involve ourselves in the issues of today because, heaven forbid, we offend somebody.
Speaker 2:You know, I'll take it even a step further. When you said you're absolutely right about us not getting too much into the person, but knowing if someone's standing for godly principles, it's a no-brainer that we should vote for them, because it's more about the principles we're talking about. Because even you take their preachers and different men and women of God that I just read their stuff and I'm like, wow, that's amazing, but—and they would say this about themselves you have to be careful not to idolize that person. Like you don't want to just go for the person, you want to go for God and always be testing the spirits, always be testing what someone's saying—testing what we're saying right now. Right, so it's important to go after God and not hold up that person, because no person is perfect.
Speaker 2:Number one, but number two, it takes the focus off of God. But instead we do want to make a stand. You know that's sort of like the same thing like boycotting things. You know, with political issues, like when you're boycotting something, sometimes it is about—that is the stand you take, but other times you want to be the presence in the room there, so to speak, to be the influence instead of—instead of not taking a stand on any issue and just not, you know, just backing out completely. We need to be involved, I think, in politics, and I think the best way to do that is the actual issue themselves, versus just following a person.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, following a person or following a party, or I would say even elevating politics itself above godliness, is you run into idolatry. First of all, people are always going to let you down, and these people who treat politicians like they are the Savior, they are, you know, the chosen one, they're the next Messiah. You know, if you've put all your faith in a person, you are always going to be disappointed. Okay. And if you put all your faith in a political party, I mean, I don't need to go off on what politicians are, but the bottom line is you know they are not Jesus Christ. And so what you really have to do in all of these things is you focus on what Jesus said.
Speaker 1:What did Jesus say? He said you know a tree by the fruit of bears. He said Be as innocent as doves, but be wise as serpents. And so what he's saying is it's your responsibility. It's your responsibility to assess what you see and to assess it wisely, but also to stay innocent of these things. Okay.
Speaker 1:Also, to stay focused on Christ, to stay focused on being the best person you can do. When I, when I, evaluate best person you can do, best person you can be pardon me when I evaluate a political issue or a person, I'm asking myself does this person manifest the fruits of the Spirit? Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control that's what I'm looking for in somebody and that's the lens I use to to evaluate any person or any any political initiative. I think one of the problems we have in the church sometimes is pastors themselves sometimes are too enamored with politics. They kind of get tempted by by that sirens call and they step outside of their anointing which is to preach the word of God, and then they start talking too much about politics which they are not as informed on. Okay, and then when that happens, then you kind of have the worst of both worlds. You're getting bad political advice and you're you're straying away from from godliness.
Speaker 2:Oh, are we getting off on the sermons again, jordan? Well, no, I'm just saying no, I hope to see.
Speaker 1:It's important. It's important to speak about issues, but it's also important to inform yourself of it, and if your idea of informing yourself is, you know, reading a Wikipedia article for three minutes or or just the headlines in newspaper, then you're doing everyone to service. It's something that has to be studied and has to be kept up with.
Speaker 2:And I see the opposite in some churches. They don't want the divisiveness that we talked about, and so they shy away from it completely and say, you know, jesus is not. We love everyone, so let's not, you know, take a stand in politics, because we don't want people to think we are some crazy people over here. We want people to know how we're loving, and, yes, we want them to know we're loving, but we also want people to know what we stand for, and we can do that in a loving way through the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, All right, sweetie, Good job. So in the last 20 seconds can you praise up please?
Speaker 2:Yes, well, merry Christmas everyone, first of all, and we pray in Jesus' name that all of us, lord, keep the focus on you this Christmas season, Lord, and that we go after you and use this time to really follow your heart and hear you and get what you want us to hear in the whisper, lord, and just grow closer to you in every single way, in Jesus' name, amen.
Speaker 1:Well, hopefully we didn't lose too many of our listeners. Slash viewers from that one? I don't think so. Don't have enough as it is. So you know any any small adjustments are a problem. All right, guys listen. Thanks for joining us. Have a Merry, merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. We'll see you soon.
Speaker 2:Merry Christmas everyone.